Former NASA astronaut on Artemis II

S1: Welcome in San Diego , it's Jade Hindman. On today's show , former NASA astronaut and administrator Major General Charles Bolden Jr joins us to reflect on the Artemis two mission. This is KPBS Midday Edition connecting our communities through conversation. Retired NASA administrator and astronaut Major General Charles Bolden Jr flew on for space shuttle missions. He led NASA in developing the Space Launch System rocket and the Orion crew capsule , which is carrying the Artemis two mission right now. Tomorrow , that spacecraft and the four astronauts inside will splashdown off the coast of San Diego after a ten day trip around the moon. It's the first time in more than 50 years since American astronauts have been there. And as far as space missions go. It's being called a big success. Major General Bolden joins me now to talk all about it. Welcome to midday again. We're so glad to have you back.

S2: How are you doing ? It's so good to be with you. And , uh , you know , I'm home sick. Oh. Yes.

S1: Yes. Yes. Oh my goodness. Well , I , I remember the last time we spoke , we were , we were celebrating 50 years since the moon landing.

S2: I you know , I I've been all over the map. I've been scared to death at launch because I always am when I'm not flying , uh , to elated once , once they got safely on orbit , uh , to just holding my breath as they went around the moon just again overjoyed at all the data that's coming back. That is absolutely incredible. So I'm a happy camper.

S1: Yeah , well , you've called this mission a baby step toward a human mission to Mars. So tell me.

S2: And that's a very critical mission. That's why I called this one a baby step. This is sort of like Apollo eight. If you want to look , you know , if you're familiar with all that and you want to look back that far , um , you know , we we went around to demonstrate that we could get there one thing and that the vehicle would perform well. The next flight is sort of like a Gemini flight , to be quite honest , because we're going to actually try to rendezvous with , which means meet up with one or more of the of the candidate Landers , um , dock with them , make sure that we can maneuver and everything. Make sure we can undock. Uh , so that'll be the next. The next baby step before we say we're ready to put some someone on the moon so that we hope that'll be next year. And , uh , and then we'll be , I won't say on our way , but we'll be closer to being on our way than we are today.

S1: Yeah , well , you know , many of us were blown away by the images of the far side of the moon , which the four person crew captured earlier this week.

S2: This was a science mission. And for anyone who is a , you know , a geologist or somebody who studies a planetary geology or anything like that , this was critical because it demonstrated how much we actually didn't know about the geology of the moon , stuff that , you know , we find that there are differences between the far side and the near side. And listening to my geology friends , I am not one. So please don't don't take anything I say to be scientific. But listening to them , some of them were surprised that you know , the features on the far side of the moon are far sharper. It's like it hasn't been beat up quite as much as is what we see on the on on the side of the moon that we see all the time. Um , you know , they , the crew talked about craters inside of craters that have been preserved through millennia , if you will. So , uh , we we are learning so much about the geology of the moon and what and where , you know , what kind of things we need to be cautious of when we land there , lighting and all other kinds of things. So this was a very critical mission from a scientific standpoint to making our human landing successful.

S1: I hear there's ice in there.

S2: Uh , ice is a source of oxygen and hydrogen. You know , when we melt it , it turns to water. And so that's a source of propellant that we can use to get off the moon , whether we're going , you know , to Mars or whether we're coming back to Earth. For me , that's the big story of the of all the water ice that we we now are pretty sure is prevalent on the South Pole , the lunar south pole , where we're going to where we're scheduled to make the first landing. Um , people talk about , uh , you know , strategic minerals. There are all kinds of suppositions about what we're going to find. Helium three and the like. So that's one reason we need to put humans on the surface so we can start to actually try to , to claim or to find some of this , the stuff that people think is there. Hmm.

S1: Hmm. You know , during your career , you flew on four space shuttle missions , logging nearly 700 hours in space. Um , when you reflect on that time , what stands out to you ? Because when I when you reflect , I hear you say , you know , this is exciting , but this is also a bit terrifying.

S2: You you've trained , uh , just an incredible amount of time. You feel eminently prepared for the mission. The the flight control team and the flight training team. Have you ready ? I have to admit , in four flights on the shuttle , I don't think I was ever surprised by anything , uh , that that happened to us. Good or bad. Um , you know , and and and the the true thing about spaceflight is very seldom does something really bad go. You know , when we had something bad happen. It was horrible because that was Columbia and Challenger. But most of the time the vehicles perform pretty much like you want them to. We always have trouble with the toilets , so we did not disappoint on this flight. Um , but I , you know , I you asked me what what was a highlight or what ? You know , it's always the people. I , I get asked all the time , do I miss NASA and do I miss the Marine Corps ? To two organizations that I think are the two best organizations on the face of the planet. And I tell people all the time , I do not miss the Marine Corps , the organization. I miss the people. I miss Marines dearly. Uh , I get emotional when I think about a same thing with NASA folk. Um , that's one of the things that's really bothered me about what's going on today. You know , in our in our country , how we're shortchanging science and , and other kinds of things in the , in the budgets that are coming out of the white House and out of the Congress , because we're shortchanging people that I know and love , people who are really dedicated to what they do , who don't ask any quarter. They just they do what they're asking. You know , they do what they're asked to do and they try to serve the American people. So I think it's really important for us to listen to messages that the crew gave us about understanding that we're on an incredible , unique , uh , piece of the universe. And and we need to remember that. But we also need to remember that it's up to us to preserve it. And and that for me , as an American , that means preserving our democracy and standing up for the rule of law and and making sure that we follow the idea and embedded in our Constitution. So now you've got my my stump speech.

S1: Well , hey , I like it. I mean , I always like for people to express what they feel on , on , on this show here. I mean , on that.

S2: And throughout my 34 years , and even today , when I go to college campuses or high schools , I tell kids about , um , you know , the fact that from the moment I set foot on the U.S. Naval Academy yard to , as a midshipman , um , not planning to become a marine officer , but later deciding to do that , I took an oath that said , I do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States against all enemies , foreign and domestic. And there is nothing in the oath about about a person. It's about the Constitution which which that is what tells us what the what the Founding Fathers felt. This idea of a more perfect union , uh , something that we strive for every single day. We have fits and starts. You know , I grew up in the segregated South. Uh , I am here today because of advances that my parents and other people made. And now we're stepping back a little bit because we're forgetting the Constitution. So I think it's really important for all of us , uh , you know , every single American or a person who calls themselves an American to remind themselves every once in a while about the Constitution and what it means to us. Right.

S1: Right. And your career has been amazing. You were the first to do a lot of things. Um , and also the first human to broadcast from the surface of Mars , so.

S2: Well , it wasn't real time. It was , believe it or not. Uh , we actually people are amazed at this thing we call , uh , um , uh , optical communications or laser communications. My voice came from the surface of Mars via via optical communications. We wanted to test out the ability to communicate with lasers because you can bundle. And I'm getting way too technical here , but you can put much more , much more material in a packet of a laser than you can just by regular old radio communications like we're probably doing right now. I doubt , I doubt that we're using lasers , but , um. Yeah. You know , when you when you don't , you don't transmit stuff any faster with laser comm , but you submit , you transmit larger packets of information. So , you know , whereas it would take us we'd never be able to get all the images down from Orion that we got from from their , their orbit of the moon just on standard communications channels. But lasers let us pack all those terabytes of data , as I understand it , into that and get it down here. Whereas they'd have to bring everything back in the old days.

S1: That's so interesting. So the lasers don't necessarily make communication faster , but it makes it to where you can transfer a lot more data.

S2: You get a lot more data because you're in a laser. You may have six beams , if you will. Each beam is like like one radio wave. So instead of getting one radio wave full of data , you get six radio waves full of data and a laser beam. Mhm.

S1: Mhm. All right , all right. That's very. Easy.

S2: Easy. Now , now. Now when you hang up. When I hang up , you go talk to the engineer there. On the , on the , on the console. Uh , look over it right now and tell you what he's giving you.

S1: A solid yes. You know Brandon. True story.

S2: But but yes , I was I was privileged to have my voice beamed back from the surface of Mars. We really wanted President Obama to do that. But. But we couldn't convince his staff that I think they felt it was kind of hokey or something , I don't know. So we said we didn't want to waste the opportunity. So the NASA administrator got to do it.

S1: Well , that's very , very cool.

S2: Um , I there is no single moment , but but again , every moment that I love and cherish has to do with the people with whom I worked. Um , you know , whether it's my first my first encounter with Russian cosmonauts who I did not want to meet because I , I thought I hated them and they hated me. And I found out after the first meeting that we , all three of us really cherished our , our families and our children , and we wanted to make the world better. Mhm. Um , you know , when I , when I was getting ready to , to fly my final shuttle mission where I flew with Sergey Krikalev , um , a Russian cosmonaut. So , um , it's , it's the people that I cherish more than anything else.

S1: Yeah , yeah. And it's amazing how , uh , meeting people and this type of space travel really changes one's perspective. Um , yeah. Yeah.

S2: I'm going to. I'm going to be nostalgic here. I , I like I said , I grew up in the civil rights era , um , 1968 , when I graduated from the Naval Academy , a year before we landed humans on the moon. Um , you know , at the same time that Apollo eight went around the moon and we got the first Earthrise and reading from the book of Genesis on Christmas Eve , we were in the streets fighting against each other , American against American , uh , in the civil , the height of the civil rights era , uh , fights for civil rights , fights against the war in Vietnam. Um , you know , sounds a little , little familiar. Um , we've got to remember that. You know , you got to keep fighting , and you've got to keep keep your eye on where we're trying to go in this , this continual march toward a , you know , a more perfect union that , uh , if you let up or if you give up , uh , we don't get there.

S1: I've been speaking with Major General Charles Bolden , Jr. Former NASA administrator and former astronaut , Major General Bolden. It's been such an honor. Thank you for all your work. And thanks for joining us.

S2: No , thank you so very much. And please give my best to everybody out there in San Diego who gave us such a home for almost nine years. My nine , almost nine of my last years in the Marine Corps , but most especially welcomed , eventually welcomed us when we came down to Miramar. Uh , you know , to to push the Navy out , uh , it became a great home to the Marine Corps , and we loved it when we were there. Thank you very much.

S1: Thank you. That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.